I. 3Lo 2A3T counter argument and overall Technical Analysis & GoE Comparison & PCS

Written by Paige Summers in GoldenYuna

Web Edited by Ene  

You can download the original file updated by Paige Summers in May 23, 2014

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For those who wonder (because Yuna critics mention it all the time) why Yuna didn't plan her program with 3Lo (3 loop) or 2A3T so her technical base marks can be higher... Here's something you can work with if you wanted to counter argue as to why Yuna had to choose her elements the way she did and why she didn't need 3Lo and 2A3T to win.



On a Golden skate forum thread (link above), the top post by ladyepheu said ― “YUNA IS A PERFECTIONIST”. She doesn't settle for anything less than perfect.

It's not that Yuna can't do 3Lo. In fact, no other skater, not even Mao whose signature jump is 3Lo (besides 3A), has the level of execution as Yuna does. (Yuna's height and distance and textbook posture can't be compared with other skaters) However, very unfortunately, Yuna didn't have much luck in racking up GoE with 3Lo & had less success rate of landing clean 3Lo jump in the actual competitions all throughout 2007~2008 & 2008~2009 seasons. Well, not as high as the success rate of landing good quality 3F-3T & 3Lz & 2A anyways. - Even though she landed 3Lo perfectly fine during the practices. AND the funny thing is, since Yuna goes into 3Lo with so much speed, if the bending of the legs goes wrong, it can make you lose balance and eventually fall ? CBC commentator says this after Yuna’s fall after attepting 3Lo at 4CC 2009. (loop jump is when you make crossover x shape with your legs before take-off ? and it requires great balance skill because there’s bound to be bending towards a side when the skater gets ready to take-off) Also, Yuna does it with so much power that Loop jump often led to injuries - meaning, doing it the right way with great speed and power built up the pressure on her hip joint and right ankle (mainly affected by Loop jump) - So possibly with high probability of injuries in mind, Yuna somehow jinxed herself with 3Lo especially during the performances, which is very unfortunate because she does it so well.

Now, unlike Mao who pursued 3A regardless of very low success rate, since it awarded her such high base points (even with under-rotation deductions, she walked away with good 6~7 marks), Yuna had no reason to include 3Lo if she didn't have high success rate. (She often lost good 3-4 points when she poped it or fell during the jump - after the deductions, she only got like 1~1.5 points) Yuna already had solid 3Lz, which awarded her more point than 3Lo (5~7 points) and after 2008/2009 season, Yuna substituted 2A for 3Lo, which guaranteed her good 4-5 points (3.3 + GoE) ― Yuna's Ina Bauer or Spread eagle + 2A has been a very difficult signature routine.

* Note from Yuna’s score sheets that Yuna always had good success rate of 3F-3T racking up GoE of +2 ― except in 2008~2009 season ― a tech specialist was suddenly obsessed with giving Yuna an attention edge call on Yuna’s perfect 3F.


<2007/08 season>

<2008/09 season>

Vancouver 2010 - Start of jump elements compositions 3Lz-3T, 3F, 2A-2T-2Lo, 2A-3T, 3Lz, 3S, 2A

The tactic to include 2A jump instead of 3Lo worked just fine in Vancouver season in terms of working around the ISU rules. Back in 2010, the rule said in FS, only 2 kinds of triples are allowed to be repeated - meaning hypothetically you can have 2 3Lz and 2 3F but while keeping these jumps, you can't have 2 3Lo, 2 3T, 2 3S, 2 3A. (Only one of each four kind will be allowed.) And this limitation didn't apply to 2A so Yuna was able to include 3 2A jumps (2A2T2Lo, 2A3T, 2A) Even without 3Lo, Yuna entered the competition with a technically difficult program with base values of 61. - 3Lz-3T, 3F, 2A-3T, 2A-2T-2Lo, 3Lz, 3S, 2A. High base value plus massive GoE gave Yuna 78 TES. In this case, Yuna did have 2A3T, but didn't need 3Lo for her to win.

* ISU changed the rule after Vancouver, however, as if to find ways to disadvantage Yuna, so that 2A was a subject to the limitation as well. Not only that, they increased value of 3A & 3Lo (Mao’s two favourite jumps), decreased value of 3S (always a part of Yuna’s program). 3T went from 4.0 to 4.1 ? but no increase in 3Lz at all. (3Lz is Yuna’s signature jump - so many skaters struggle with wrong edge and only Yuna nails it with nearly 95% success rate) The biggest change was Scale of Value system. Up to Vancouver, GoE were applied as 1:1 ratio ? meaning the average of what 9 judges gave, after trimming out highest and lowest, are the GoE points you get. With Scale of Value system, it reduces the amount of GoE you can get. For instance, if all nine judges gave +1 GoE on 3Lz, up to Vancouver, you would have gotten 6.0 +1.0 = 7. But with scale of value of 1:0.7, you only get 6.0+0.7=6.7.

http://static.isu.org/media/108107/1790-sptc-sov_levdiff_2013-2014.pdf (Scale of Value)


ISU rule for FS program 2013-2014

- Composition;

7 jumping elements (at least 1 must be axel jump (2A or 3A)), 3 spins, 1 Chreo, 1 Step seq = total of 12 elements

- 2 triples can be repeated

- if repeated, one of them has to be a part of a combination - 3-3 or 3-2 or 3-2-2

- 2A can't be included more than two times.

- A jump combination may consist of the same or another single, double, triple or quadruple jump. There may be up to three jump combinations or jump sequences in the Free Program. One jump combination could consist of up to three (3) jumps, the other two up to two (2) jumps.

So, new rule prevented Yuna from having 3 2A jumps. It meant that Yuna had to give up on one of the 3 2A jumps - now, there are a couple scenarios assuming Yuna keeps other jumping elements the same (3Lz3T, 3F, 3S, 3Lz) ;

1) Keep both 2A-3T & 2A-2T-2Lo;

Yuna has 2 3Lz & 2 3T, 1 3F, 1 3S (3S2T automatically gets thrown out - 3S can't be repeated and Yuna already would two 2-jump combinations - 3Lz-3T & 2A-3T)

So, 3Lz-3T, 2A-3T, 3F, 3S, 3Lz, 2A2T2Lo so far - but Yuna needs one more jump element to replace 2A - now, Yuna already has 2 repeated triples and three other single triples, so she has to include 3Lo/3A. (very similar to Vancouver, but Yuna must do 3Lo/3A instead of 2A)

2) Keep 2A3T and 2A & drop 2A-2T-2Lo;

Yuna has 2 3Lz, 2 3T, 1 3F, 1 3S (drop 3S2T since she can't have more than two repeated triples and can't have three 2-jump combinations), one 2A - she needs a combination of three jumps, so she can turn single 3F into 3F2T2Lo or 3Lz into 3Lz2T2Lo

So in this case, she has 3Lz-3T, 2A-3T, 2A, 3S/3F/3Lz (any one of these can turn into three jump combination with 2T/2Lo instead of single)  - Yuna has 2 3Lz & 2 3T so she can’t repeat 3S or 3F as 7th jumping element. So Yuna needs 3Lo or 3A. (this is exactly the layout of Adelina's program - she has an extra 3F instead of 3Lz - she has single 3F and 3F2T2Lo)

* MANY skaters usually choose 2A3T as a 3-2 combination because it has relatively high base value (3.3+4.1) - 2A is a 2.5 revolution and has higher value than any other double jumps. But actually since 3T has one of the lowest base value out of all the triples, 3Lz-2T(6.0+1.3) or 3F-2T(5.3+1.3) have almost the same base value. So, 2A-3T does not have to be mandatory when trying to get high marks - although skaters and the judges value its difficulty for it being an axel jump combination.* And in order to include 2A3T, you can see how you need 3Lo or 3A to work around ISU rule.

3) Keep 2A & 2A-2T-2Lo (what Yuna had for Les miserables and Adios nonino)

Yuna has 3Lz3T, 2A2T2Lo, 3F, 3S, 3Lz, 2A - this leaves room for one 3-2 two-jump combination ? almost anything other than 2A3T would go - 3(S,F, not Lutz because that means 3F or 3S need to be repeated but when you repeat a triple, at least one of them has to be in a combination)2(T,Lo) would work out. This give Yuna an option to not include triple loop. She could have done 3F2T instead of 3S2T, which would have had higher base value - but not too much difference anyway. I personally think 3S2T was placed perfectly into her routine for both Les Miserables and Adios Nonino. - I love the Yuna's Salchow because they are always so artistic and fitted so perfectly with music. I even think only Yuna can nail 3S properly.

4) Choose to have only one of 2A or 2A-3T or 2A-2T-2Lo

#1 If single 2A; 3Lz3T, 3F, 3S, 3Lz, ()2T2Lo, 2A, 3()2() - maybe 3F2T2Lo and 3S2(T or Lo) or vice versa - not having to include 3Lo

#2 If 2A-3T; 3Lz3T, 2A3T, 3F, 3S, 3Lz, (3F or 3S or 3Lo)2T2Lo, 3(Lo/A) - must include 3Lo/3A

#3 If 2A-2T-2Lo; 3Lz3T, 3F, 3S, 3Lz, 3(F or S)2(T or Lo), 2A2T2Lo, 3(Lo or A) - must include 3Lo/3A

* So in order for Yuna to have a program without 3Lo, she could only choose option 3) or option 4) #1. And she chose option 3) with 3S-2T for Les Miserables and Adios Nonino (exact same elements)